it's official: I'm going to hell
I am coming out of the closet, I've hinted at it in man other posts, but I am ready to be liberated. No, I'm not gay, it's even worse... I don't believe in inerrancy (that the bible is perfect in its original manuscripts). In honor of my coming out, rather than having a ten page post as to why I believe this way (or what I currently am thinking about the bible, which would be even more inflammatory), I have decided to just ask a couple questions that I am hoping both of you who read my post will respond to...
1- What is your view of the bible (inerrancy, infallibility, old boring book...) and are there any particularly inspiring reasons why (bonus for those up to the task... answer the essay question: How has the church's marriage to enlightenment, rationalism, and foundationalism affected the current orthodox view of the bible and theology?)
2- If you are an inerrantist, why am I going to hell? Joking aside, I really do want to hear about it if you are in the inerrancy camp.. it is a view I held for a long time and it is worth stating...
This might fail miserably, under which circumstances I will promptly remove this post and harshly deny that I ever even questioned the authority of the bible (and kill everyone who claims otherwise)
posted by Curt Steinhorst @ 8:23 AM
9 comments
9 Comments:
oh curt! I miss your deep talks! how´s virginia? keep me updated on life, girls, and more! have a good day!
you're silly. not b/c you don' t believe in inerrancy, but just because.
sometime when i'm less tired, i'll try to respond. but of course, i'll use smaller words than you use. i hope you can still follow.
come back to college station. i miss you!
hey curt...i stumbled upon your blog from the facebook (and because i'm bored out of my mind). i just felt like commenting because i really appreciate much of what you write in here. i don't necessarily agree with most of what you say, but i like reading through your rationales and thoughts.
i'm pretty much a northern transplant now, and we tend to view die-hard southern christians as ignorant and unwilling to question their faith. i'm glad you are proving that stereotype wrong. but, from some of your comments, it seems that others don't want to question their beliefs and keep referring back to the bible without thinking about what it exactly means. granted, that's easier than thinking everything through, but i think your approach is wiser.
and yes, i think the bible is errant. it's a human document - inspired by god, yes, but written by humans. i guess my history training forces me to be skeptical of any document put before me.
hope you're well - veronica (aaall the way back from PSHS)
Okay, I'll bite.
This is the first time I have seen your blog. I am new to the whole blogging thing.
I am not going to try and prove the infallibility, or innerancy, of the Bible to you. I admittingly do not understand everything I see and I read it Everyday. I have many times said respectfully but honestly to God, "hey I don't get this, or I don't really like this"
And I hear the Lord whisper, "pass it by, don't worry about it." So I just pass it by and move on. I don't let it stress me out. I don't have to know Everything, now.
My salvation is not wrapped up in wearing crosses, or going to church. My salvation is not dependant on whether I can accept or believe everything printed in the Bible.
My salvation is totally wrapped up in if I can Believe God when He tells me, "hey Karen you have a choice here, you can Choose Life and accept and believe my Son's sacrifice, turn away from doing, or thinking those things that hurt yourself and hurt others by walking according to the commandments I have said plainly. Rest assured by your faith in MY Son Jesus Christ, you will be saved.
Or you can choose Death and not believe I have made a way of escape for you. You are even free to choose to believe I do not exist, just know those choices are death. And when you face me on judgment Day you will know as you are known."
So Curt, I have some questions for you. Are you basing your salvation on whether you can believe everything in that Book is correct? Then you are in trouble. I know the pastors say we must Believe Every word in that Book to be saved. I only assume that you being from good ole Plano, Tx you were raised Southern Baptist. Forgive me if I am wrong in my assumption. I was raised long ago Southern Baptist and I know they demand our total acceptance of every word in the printed Bible as the all encompassing Word of God. They mean well and have some good intentions. But the truth is the Printed Bible is not the Word made Flesh that is dwelling among us. That is a definiton for Jesus Christ ONLY. I am not saying the Bible isn't God inspired, for I believe it was all inspired and it has endured many centuries, so some of it must be true. God will not be mocked. He would not allow for Blasphemy to exist without some contrasting truth to reveal that Blasphemy. But I digress. As far as salvation, and whether you are truthfully headed for hell or not, answer me these questions.
Do you believe that God the father sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to the earth to walk as man, to die as a man, and to be raised from the dead, to sit on the right Hand of God till all things are put under Jesus' feet? Have you ever believed or acknowledged we are seperated spiritually From God Our Creator because of sin. Sin being defined as those things we do in our hearts, minds, and flesh that transgess God's laws for Humankind? Have you ever called out for God to forgive those sins, and cover those sins with His son's Blood. (all in a spiritual sense)
Have you after calling out to God, believing in your heart that if you confess your sins, God is just to forgive them? And after your forgiveness you admitted you needed Jesus to be the Lord, Advisor, and Helper of your life so you can do things according to those commandments and ways that God wants all humanity to follow. And did you ever believe that by doing this you were inviting the Holy Spirit to come inside your being, sealing you to God forever, writing your name in the Lamb's book of Life, so after your flesh dies, and it will die, you will have everlasting life with God? Did you ever at one time admit to and believe any of this?
If so rest assured You are a child of God. Now does a child of God have to understand the Bible fully and in understanding accept it as innerant in order to be saved from eternal death, or eternal seperation from God? "No". The Book, the written Words contained in that book I believe are as truthful as we can understand them. I mean there are lots of things I stumble over when I read it and i read it Everyday. But because I don't "get it" over some hard scripture, do I lose my salvation? No
Now fortunatly or unfortunatly for you, God is talking to us thru this man made media we call the Bible. If you choose God, he will give you His Holy Spirit and that Holy Spirit will teach you, whether you ever open the Bible or not. I believe He is that powerful. I have actually experienced this. We have not always had the printed Bible. What did all those believers do before the printed word. How did Abraham in Genesis talk to God, and God talk to Him. Abraham was counted righteous and yet the 10 commandments had not been written down by Moses, but Abraham followed God's commands. So I believe God can teach, instruct and expose our sin without the Bible.
But my friend, there are some really sound words of wisdom, instruction, and teaching in there. Aside from all the theolgians perspective. Read what appeals to you. It is merely a guide book. It is not our salvation, but faith comes by hearing the Word of God, and how shall they hear if there is no preacher, and how can they preach unless they be sent. Maybe the Bible is that preacher.
Part of our salvation is confessing Jesus or saying out loud to others why you believe in Jesus, and what He has done to transform your life. Your testimony to someone maybe even more powerful than the Bible, for that moment. For those who believe and trust in God are living letters.
I have a testimony, I will have to share with you later. it is rather long, but basically I accepted Jesus as my Savior when I was 7 years old. I totally knew what I was doing, and I grew with God all through my teen years. But when I turned 19 and went in to the Airforce, terrible things happened to me, within 10 months I was raped 3 differnt times by different men. It was heart breaking and I felt God had abandonded me, and I began to hate God, and His Bible. I told everyone it was all a lie, and I refused to read it. 18 years later God spoke to me, without me reading the Bible. Write me if you would like more of that story. I gotta go to work.
be well my brother, and may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ reign in your heart and mind.
i keep checking back to see what people write, and mostly i notice your post keeps shrinking . . .
I have really enjoyed hearing the different thoughts you guys have put on here. I have actually received a few emails and IMs from people that have expressed their views, but not posted them (probably because it would be pretty inflammatory)...
Veronica, it's great hearing from you, and thanks for the encouragement. I have found that people fear questions alot more than God does. I agree with you that many of my southern christian friends have the tendency toward not being willing to question things (as I have spent a lot of my time in my blogs venting about...). I do think, however, that it is more a human problem than a christian problem. I find that people in general don't like to have their worldview questioned, even the ones that have conditioned themselves to questioning everything (their refusal to accept a particular worldview is in fact a worldview in and of itself)... One of the biggest things I enjoy doing in this blog is challenge people to question things, that if they are afraid of the question because of the answer they might find, then is that belief really worth holding? In the end, I really do believe if we ask enough questions, we have a much better chance of getting to real answers. Thanks for your thoughts, and I am planning on commenting on your posts in the future...
zealot for Jesus... Thanks a ton for taking the time to write your post. I definitely want to hear your whole story... you experienced things that I can't even imagine and I definitely want to hear your story.
On what you said,I agree with a lot of what you said (basis of the faith, although I am still working through the practicality of taking the parts that impact me from the bible and leaving the rest, it seems that might end in me just using the bible to support whatever I want to believe (regardless of what the bible is really saying) - which I think is the norm among bible readers and worshipers anyway, I just don't like it)...
For clarification, I don't really think i am going to hell. I was just attempting to use satire to show the stupidity of our tendency toward kicking everyone out on any and every issue that we disagree on. Personally, I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about the whole deal being about knowing Jesus, not a book (I can hear people say that I am setting up a false dichotomy...shut up). So yes, I still think I am a child of God. Thanks again for your thoughts.
Hey Curt,
One thing I have noticed in my personal studies of Church history is how much western culture and modern thought have shaped our Christian teaching in America. The Enlightenment and the Age of Reason forced the church to "adapt?" to modern times and ideas. The chruch was focused on proving that the God of the Bible exists to combat the ideas of Voltaire and the Deists and evolution. It has forced me to realize how much of my thinking that has been ingrained in me is just western thought -> Greek philosophy -> Gentile.
The Bible was written by Hebrews, and I think they thought differently than we do. For example, our culture focusses on self, whereas historic Jewish thought would focus on community (community prayer, community worship, community faith). I think stuff from the Enlightenment and stuff from Greek philosophy still comes out of our American pulpits. We have a lot to learn from history.
As far as the Bible, I have sometimes wondered if those guys in Nicea really knew what they were doing. I'd like to read some of the books that were considered standard Christian reading in the first century, but didn't make the cut as "Scripture". I know however that the church needs a Bible due to our inclination toward divisions and distractions. Even when we have the Bible there are still divisions! Can the Bible have historical errors, and still be God's Word which is able to pierce our hearts? I lean towards yes. I put a good amount of stock in that comparing the Bible to other ancient documents, it is unique, enduring, widely known, accurate, convicting. Does anyone read anything that the Hittites wrote and decide to change their life?
I don't know if any of this is really on subject or not.
Hope to talk to you soon friend!
hey Curt, you got comment spammed . . . you can ban the guy
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